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Posts: 4519
Dec 16 13 5:47 AM
intp wrote:Lark Knight wrote:nakamachi wrote:Even with my love for the 70s era comics I don't think there is much need to print any more in MMW unless perhaps it's Luke Cage. They could do Peter Parker, SVTU, MS. Marvel and others in TPB and it would be just fine with me. I hope we get Power Man, Ghost Rider, SVTU, Spectacular Spider-Man, Invaders, and Champions in Masterworks. And a few volumes of Power Man/ Iron Fist would be cool as well.Same here, although I can live without Invaders or Champions because of the Classic volumes. But Power Man, Ghost Rider (Johnny Blaze) and SVTU deserve Masterworking IMO, not to mention Doc Doom. I can also live without PPTSS but it''s probably coming anyway.
Lark Knight wrote:nakamachi wrote:Even with my love for the 70s era comics I don't think there is much need to print any more in MMW unless perhaps it's Luke Cage. They could do Peter Parker, SVTU, MS. Marvel and others in TPB and it would be just fine with me. I hope we get Power Man, Ghost Rider, SVTU, Spectacular Spider-Man, Invaders, and Champions in Masterworks. And a few volumes of Power Man/ Iron Fist would be cool as well.
nakamachi wrote:Even with my love for the 70s era comics I don't think there is much need to print any more in MMW unless perhaps it's Luke Cage. They could do Peter Parker, SVTU, MS. Marvel and others in TPB and it would be just fine with me.
Posts: 1897
Dec 16 13 2:26 PM
Five Years Later wrote:Epic is only covering 6 lines. I doubt someone with 15 volumes of ASM & 12 volumes of Thor is just going to abandon those lines in favor of the Epic editions.
Posts: 4692
Dec 16 13 2:58 PM
Dec 16 13 3:45 PM
Matthew McCallum wrote: * A last thought on the include / not include topic: Unpublished or delayed-publication stories that were crafted from the era that we are collecting should be included. So for Ms. Marvel, I'd include the story that was originally intended for issue 25. Now, the harder call is do you just include those first 20 pages, or also collect the 10 pages added in Marvel Super-Heroes to resolve the story from a cliffhanger? My initial leaning is just publish the first 20 page cliffhanger, but I'm open to arguments.
Posts: 5828
Dec 17 13 3:35 PM
nakamachi wrote:Batmite wrote:2) In time, most of the 70s output will make it MM, like Jeph said: "one format reprint doesn't exclude another", so eventually The Eternals, TOD and many others will make it to MM.Personally I think sales will be the deciding factor, and as long as we have only 9-10 Marvel Age MM volumes per year, concentrating on the main lines, everything else will be excluded.Demand is the key, I think Marvel is doing a good job with the Epic line which will get the later material out faster and I suspect that what will happen is that more collectors will begin to embrace the format over the MMW since there is so much more material in the 80s to cover. The reason I think the MMW may slow down between 1980 and 1983 is because those are the last few years before everything seems to get divided up into big time creator runs. I wouldn't say that the MMW line would stop at 1983 necessarily, just that there will probably be a major drop off in those years. I suspect that some of the more beloved runs will continue to move forward since there will always be fans that want high quality reproductions of 80s material like Simonson Thor or Byrne FF, perhaps even New Mutants, but lots of other titles like Daredevil after Miller, Iron Man after Michelini, Late Defenders, Marvel Team-Up etc may fail to hold enough fan support. I agree, especially since MMs and classic reprints in general has been on the way down for a few years now, so totally 100% about demand, and at the same time, and by experience, I do have faith in Marvel capacity to reinvent its formats, so the end will never really be the end, just a new beginning, and in a way that is what Epic really is.I think what might happen is you will see MMW continue through titles like FF or Thor for a while, and you might see a few fan favorites pop up as new titles, but you might also see the frequency drop off a bit and perhaps even a return to the Atlas books as Epic becomes more popular for the newer material. There is just far too much material to masterwork it all and I think it's more likely that only select titles get the MMW treatment. I would expect new 80s titles to include New Mutants, Wolverine, Moon Knight, X-Factor, Alpha Flight and maybe Punisher, but that's about it.I think FFF, put it best when he said, "this kind of format has a built in audience that would buy almost anything in that format", unfortunately there is also an erosion factoras people collections grow too large or perhaps interest simply dies out.So I would go back to your first statement above, MM up to the 80s, and then who knows, but I have no doubt, given time, Marvel will collect (in a format or the other) most of what we are all asking in term of 70s-80s or even 90s material,from Ms Marvel to SVTU to Horror and so on, with the obvious exceptions of less popular genres Romance, western and war, like it or not Super heroes sell the most.As far as Atlas material goes, once we get to the pre-Marvel age period, loaded with Kirby and Ditko short stories, sales should be pretty OK.Also BTW I think we may be looking at 11 or 12 MA titles per year right now and maybe more annual titles like Daredevil, Cap, Iron Man and Hulk. I'm beginning to have my doubts about whether we will git Luke Cage at all. If we don't see it by say March 2015 I doubt we get it.Of the top of my head, I can only think of two titles that could make it to MM, (under the current publishing policy of big guns only): Luke Cage and Ghost Rider.So if we do go for 11-12 MM per year and CM is one volume off to be completed, then I think it will be possible for both lines to be Masterworked, but I would not expect either title (as well as few others) to ever be completed as MM.
Batmite wrote:2) In time, most of the 70s output will make it MM, like Jeph said: "one format reprint doesn't exclude another", so eventually The Eternals, TOD and many others will make it to MM.Personally I think sales will be the deciding factor, and as long as we have only 9-10 Marvel Age MM volumes per year, concentrating on the main lines, everything else will be excluded.
2) In time, most of the 70s output will make it MM, like Jeph said: "one format reprint doesn't exclude another", so eventually The Eternals, TOD and many others will make it to MM.
Personally I think sales will be the deciding factor, and as long as we have only 9-10 Marvel Age MM volumes per year, concentrating on the main lines, everything else will be excluded.
Posts: 3776
Dec 17 13 3:41 PM
Dec 17 13 4:40 PM
Batmite wrote:I agree, especially since MMs and classic reprints in general has been on the way down for a few years now, so totally 100% about demand, and at the same time, and by experience, I do have faith in Marvel capacity to reinvent its formats, so the end will never really be the end, just a new beginning, and in a way that is what Epic really is.
I agree, especially since MMs and classic reprints in general has been on the way down for a few years now, so totally 100% about demand, and at the same time, and by experience, I do have faith in Marvel capacity to reinvent its formats, so the end will never really be the end, just a new beginning, and in a way that is what Epic really is.
Dec 17 13 5:00 PM
nakamachi wrote:Matthew McCallum wrote: * A last thought on the include / not include topic: Unpublished or delayed-publication stories that were crafted from the era that we are collecting should be included. So for Ms. Marvel, I'd include the story that was originally intended for issue 25. Now, the harder call is do you just include those first 20 pages, or also collect the 10 pages added in Marvel Super-Heroes to resolve the story from a cliffhanger? My initial leaning is just publish the first 20 page cliffhanger, but I'm open to arguments.We are in almost complete agreement, I think I'd leave out those "intended" Ms. Marvel 24 & 25 issues since I tend to look at the MMW line as historical rather than completist in nature. That said, I would assume they probably would be included regardless and I deal with that. On the other hand, just guessing that volume 1 would probably include MS. Marvel #1 - 14, or at least MS. Marvel #1 - 13, what would you include in volume #2 other than MSH #10 & 11? I think Avengers Annual #10 would probably be a good choice, but I don't know if I'd go as far as the Binary beginning. What do you think? Any ideas?
Dec 17 13 8:30 PM
intp wrote:Well, as Batmite notes, CM is close to an end, and Sub-Mariner won't go much more than 8 volumes probably. Defenders, MTU, and MTIO are all potentially much longer lasting but all are ultimately limited to a set number of volumes. I wonder if that means more 'slots' will eventually open up for new lines?
Posts: 1617
Dec 17 13 8:36 PM
Dec 17 13 8:43 PM
nakamachi wrote:Batmite wrote:I agree, especially since MMs and classic reprints in general has been on the way down for a few years now, so totally 100% about demand, and at the same time, and by experience, I do have faith in Marvel capacity to reinvent its formats, so the end will never really be the end, just a new beginning, and in a way that is what Epic really is.I think demand is key, but I don't think I would be as cynical to say demand is 100% what it's all about, maybe it's more like 65% about demand. I think Cory and other editors at Marvel really do love the work and wish to do everything possible to please the fans and grab their interest and I think at times that may mean a few titles that may not have the biggest fan interest but perhaps a strong core following will make it through, in this way they can generate more excitement in the line as a whole and provide a more well rounded collection rather than just printing the most popular 10 or 12 titles only.
And adding to that, Marvel seem to have a genuine interest in transfering all of its comics to digital, as well as restoring all MA comics for other reprint formats,
I have no doub that SC MM and Epic will not be the only reprint venues for MM.
I also think they have been fairly careful to move the line forward in a holistic fashion, which is why I doubt that they will allow Cap, Hulk, DD and Iron Man to fall too far behind. So if those titles don't become annual I would guess we will probably see a few more catch up volumes like they did with DD volume 8. Iron Man is actually about at the same time period as Avengers and Thor since the last volume was so big. IM volume 9 map can be skipped since the remaining 2 issues will just be added to vol 10. So I think they want the whole line to move forward in relatively the same 3 - 4 year window chronologically. Also once that window moves past a title chronologically I think they are passing it over. So I wouldn't expect any monster titles for quite some time.There is also the possibility all titles might become not annual, but a some what looser release date, anywhere between 14 and 18 months, that would allowCory to sneek in the occasional #1 volume, and so far we have been getting a new #1 every year.Also I think they do want to continue to bring out new titles to generate more excitement, but since the schedule is fairly full now and I suspect we may be seeing more of Hulk, Cap and DD, perhaps we may see a new title every other year or every year and 1/2 instead of annually. New slots will open as CM and SM and others close out but it will be very slow. It may not matter though since new titles from the late 70s and early 80s seem to have much less interest.I am still on the fence to see if we are really going to get 80s titles as MM any time soon, I would think Wolverine will continue as Omnibus for now and the New Mutants already collected as TPB will eventualy be Omnibus as well, ditto for Alpha Flight.So, Demand = 2/3, Fan excitement and interest = 1/6, and chronological movement = 1/6 (that's my guess). Although I think chronilogical ties may begin to break up in the 80s.Just thinking as I am writing this, what if.... Marvel were to start a side line of HC reprints for the lesser titles? It could be even by-monthly with fewer pages.
Dec 17 13 8:50 PM
johnnypt wrote:For Ms. Marvel, I'm using 240-260 as an optimal size per volume.
Posts: 250
Dec 17 13 9:06 PM
Dec 17 13 9:41 PM
Batmite wrote:johnnypt wrote:For Ms. Marvel, I'm using 240-260 as an optimal size per volume. That is the beauty of many of those 70s series, just about most of them can be collected in one or two volumes, Eternals, Champions, Nova, Ms Marvel, Man Wolf, Morbius, Omega, SVTU, Killraven, Son of Satan, Living Mummy, Guardians of the Galaxy, Cat/Tigra and few more. I am not saying they will be collected, I am just looking at them from the "easy to collect" point of view, as we have already seen with; Imnhumans and Deathlok.
Dec 18 13 12:26 AM
CloneUnknown wrote:"what if.... Marvel were to start a side line of HC reprints for the lesser titles? It could be even by-monthly with fewer pages." The line could be called Marvel Minorworks .
Dec 18 13 12:28 AM
nakamachi wrote:On the other hand since many of these new titles are short they could be done quickly without disrupting the schedule too much with a long term title slot. Still, some of those titles may be a long wait if they ever show at all. If a title like Marvel Team-Up is struggling with sales numbers I wouldn't hold my breath for Son of Satan or Omega. Some of these may be better for the Omnibus format and once done the may not be enough demand for them in MMW for a good long while.
Dec 18 13 9:50 AM
Dec 18 13 10:28 AM
Great Yuku has eaten my answer, sight, and I am running late, so I'll edit again later on....
nakamachi wrote:I think Ms. Marvel might have enough popularity to follow Captain Marvel. Peter Parker is probably a safe bet to sell fairly well although I'm not sure they really need to be masterworked. I would really love to see SVTU,
and the first 2 Infantino Spider Woman volumes. Champions, Nova, She Hulk, Cat/Tigra, and Guardians are all fine for TPB in my opinion.
All the Monsters including Ghost Rider and Son of Satan are probably better off in the Omnibus format I think.
naka, You know I would by a Ms Marvel Masterwork in a bolt, in fact i would buy my 2 copies, LOL but as you put it there are other series to consider as MM candidates, PPSS, Luke Cage and I would add Ghost Rider,
and I think these three are most likely a bigger priority then Ms Marvel.
Plus there is also second factor, for the past few years we have been getting a 70s series after another done in TPB, Champions and Invaders just to name a couple, and the latest one Nova,
with just one volume to be completed, and of course once Nova is done Marvel will pick the next best 70s candidate, and who could that be? I would think, and yes I might be wrong, SVTU and Ms Marvel
are the most likely candidates, after all there isn't much 70s left, outside the horror lines, and I agree with you on the monsters, 70s horror would perform better as Omnibus then done on a one by one basis,
the only other 2 possible candidates for the next 70s TPB series could be, Spider-Wooman and Killraven, but I feel that either Ms Marvel or SVTU (including Dr Doom) would be better performers
and the MM are sticking to the bigger titles, so I am very curious to see what 70s TPB will be announced after Nova is completed.
That's just my guess, I've already got all the titles I really care about so anything new that gets masterworked is all gravy train or if it's something I'm not interested in then I get a break on the expense for a month.
Dec 18 13 11:17 AM
Dec 18 13 3:22 PM
nakamachi wrote:All hail great and powerful Yuku, please do not harm me or my opinions!
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