Alan Moore talks Watchmen. At great length. in DC Archives Message Board Forum

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Alan Moore talks Watchmen. At great length.

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Medieval Guy

Alan Moore talks Watchmen. At great length.

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Posts: 4836

Mar 13 12 7:08 PM

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A really interesting interview in which Moore talks about his history with Watchmen & DC and his thoughts on the Before Watchmen project.

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jhalbright

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Posts: 10044

Mar 13 12 7:26 PM

Golden Age

Nothing new. Same gripes, just different words those time.

I recommend: Vertigo - Fables, Fairest, Unwritten; DCnU - All Star Western, Animal Man, Batman, Batman and..., Batman Inc, Batwoman, Flash, Justice League Dark, Swamp Thing, Wonder Woman; Other - BPRD, Hellboy, The Goon

psykomyko

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Posts: 2367

Mar 13 12 7:36 PM

It's nice to see a publisher step up and let Moore do the talking, instead of just badly summarizing his feelings about this sad situation.

I find myself respecting him even more after reading this in full. He's happy to acknowledge the difference between the facts and his speculation, and is man enough to take responsibility for his position, perspective, and principles.

Mike Hansen

All Day Comics
alldaycomics.com

Medieval Guy

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Posts: 4836

Mar 13 12 7:54 PM

psykomyko wrote:
It's nice to see a publisher step up and let Moore do the talking, instead of just badly summarizing his feelings about this sad situation.

Yeah, it's nice to see his position summed up thoroughly in his own words.

I remain blown away by his apparent naivété...that he could sign a work-for-hire contract with one of the biggest conglomerates on Earth without understanding what was in it because "they'd all been very, very friendly" still boggles my mind a little. He remains a maddening blend of game-changing genius and somebody completely divorced from the realities of the business he found himself in. I also wish he wouldn't be so strident in expecting others to live by his own rather eccentric standards.

But he sure does have a brilliant body of work behind him.

Mobe1969

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Posts: 479

Mar 13 12 8:56 PM

Yeah, I tend to respect authors who can stand back from their creations and be a bit more pragmatic. Like understanding that a movie isn't the book that once you finish with something it can take on a life of its own and you shouldn't try and fight it.

droid714

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Posts: 10319

Mar 13 12 8:59 PM

He doesn't want anybody who reads "Before Watchmen" to read any of his other stuff because he wouldn't have any respect for you and he wants to be able to respect his audience.

Fine by me.

Joe Borowski, the best closer in the A.L. in 2007!

pdilley

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Posts: 341

Mar 13 12 9:21 PM

Ditto the droid. And I'm not a Watchman fan; I've never read it, and probably never will. patrick

MrTinkertrain

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Posts: 1348

Mar 13 12 9:33 PM

Medieval Guy wrote:
psykomyko wrote:
It's nice to see a publisher step up and let Moore do the talking, instead of just badly summarizing his feelings about this sad situation.
Yeah, it's nice to see his position summed up thoroughly in his own words.

I remain blown away by his apparent naivété...that he could sign a work-for-hire contract with one of the biggest conglomerates on Earth without understanding what was in it because "they'd all been very, very friendly" still boggles my mind a little. He remains a maddening blend of game-changing genius and somebody completely divorced from the realities of the business he found himself in. I also wish he wouldn't be so strident in expecting others to live by his own rather eccentric standards.

But he sure does have a brilliant body of work behind him.

I think it was more "I'm making a lot of money for these guys and getting them good press from outside the comics world. Are they really stupid enough to piss me off?" than naivété. Well, mostly anyway.

Lightning n Chemicals

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Posts: 2159

Mar 13 12 9:45 PM

Loved this tantalizing bit:

"In the world that could have been, I could have carried on working happily with the American comics industry.

I know a way that they could have sorted out their continuity. I could have gotten rid of all of their problems for them. It would have been really simple. But, like I say, they unfortunately alienated me. But, they've done that everybody who has been a heavy-hitter creatively."

And how about this one?

"Absolutely. It is nothing but commerce. I mean, these characters were created for the ten year old of the 1940s. The only possible reason why they should still appeal to the 40-and-50-year-olds of the early 21st century is nostalgia in its original sense--an illness. It kind of smacks of arrested development. It smacks of people who are unable to leave these icons that connect them to their childhood behind. And, you also suspect that it's the vicarious courage that is at the root of a lot of it. Battles or struggles that they do not have the courage to confront in their own lives can be neatly channeled into these fictional characters, who always stand up against injustice and who always support the underdog. They always rail against tyrants. But, don't do that in the real world because that's just a superhero comic!"

Fin Fang Foom

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Posts: 9488

Mar 13 12 9:53 PM

Registered Member

I remain blown away by his apparent naivété...that he could sign a work-for-hire contract with one of the biggest conglomerates on Earth without understanding what was in it because "they'd all been very, very friendly" still boggles my mind a little.

Without getting into the question of Alan Moore's naivété (which I take as genuine, for whatever that's worth): when you're working with DC Comics -- yeah, they're a division of Warner Bros., we all know that -- but as a freelancer, you're working at best with a small number of people in the DC offices, and it still feels as though you're working with a small company. (I'm sure that was more the case back in the 1980s -- when I got there in 1991, that was the beginning of significant growth in staff.)

He doesn't want anybody who reads "Before Watchmen" to read any of his other stuff because he wouldn't have any respect for you and he wants to be able to respect his audience.

That strikes me as the kind of remark made in jest with full knowledge that someone is bound to take it too seriously! But I dunno, I haven't read the intervew yet.

In The Back Of Beyond: My photography blog. Everything seen through the camera of my iPhone.

KOBE27

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Posts: 5590

Mar 13 12 9:54 PM

Bronze Age

I was glad to read that the third LOEG: CENTURY book is finished! Very enthused to find out it will be coming out in a couple of months. (And that bit about NEMO: HEART OF ICE is exciting as all hell)

And, of course, it's comforting to know JERUSALEM is not done yet, LOL. (At this stage, I would consider it an End of Times sign if he'd said the damn novel was finished!)

Thanks for the link, MG. As always, it's a delight to read an Alan Moore interview.

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Medieval Guy

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Posts: 4836

Mar 13 12 9:59 PM

Fin Fang Foom wrote:
Without getting into the question of Alan Moore's naivété (which I take as genuine, for whatever that's worth): when you're working with DC Comics -- yeah, they're a division of Warner Bros., we all know that -- but as a freelancer, you're working at best with a small number of people in the DC offices, and it still feels as though you're working with a small company. (I'm sure that was more the case back in the 1980s -- when I got there in 1991, that was the beginning of significant growth in staff.)

OK, but Life 101 teaches us to read something and make sure you understand it before we sign it. As far as I'm concerned, if you don't you forfeit all right to complain about the results. He admits he didn't read it carefully, and from what he says about his feelings on its contents, it doesn't sound like he read it at all (or he wouldn't have signed it, unless he has radically changed his philosophy since then).

I knew better than that when I was in high school. (Which was years before Moore was at DC.)

Lightning n Chemicals

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Posts: 2159

Mar 13 12 10:11 PM

I don't see it as much of a question of naivete, as a question of willingness to trust ... and resultant disappointment.

Now I do interpret from Moore more of sense of disappointment (blame the other party) than regret/anger (blame yourself for a mistake). Disappointment is a lot easier to live with than regret.

DavidTai

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Posts: 16724

Mar 13 12 10:18 PM

Forum Moderator

Medieval Guy wrote:
Fin Fang Foom wrote:

Without getting into the question of Alan Moore's naivété (which I take as genuine, for whatever that's worth): when you're working with DC Comics -- yeah, they're a division of Warner Bros., we all know that -- but as a freelancer, you're working at best with a small number of people in the DC offices, and it still feels as though you're working with a small company. (I'm sure that was more the case back in the 1980s -- when I got there in 1991, that was the beginning of significant growth in staff.)
OK, but Life 101 teaches us to read something and make sure you understand it before we sign it. As far as I'm concerned, if you don't you forfeit all right to complain about the results. He admits he didn't read it carefully, and from what he says about his feelings on its contents, it doesn't sound like he read it at all (or he wouldn't have signed it, unless he has radically changed his philosophy since then).

I knew better than that when I was in high school. (Which was years before Moore was at DC.)

I had the impression he knew, but dealt with it as basically part of the conditions of work-for-hire.

From this interview that was done in 1988:

http://www.johncoulthart....an-moore-interview-1988/

‘I’ve been content to work under those conditions for years – because those are the conditions that prevail and you have to go with them to get into the industry. I’ve now broken through to the real world of publishing and I can now see what it is I’ve been swimming through for the past five or six years. It certainly isn’t lavender water.’

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Brother Eye

is watching.
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Fin Fang Foom

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Posts: 9488

Mar 13 12 10:21 PM

Registered Member

Like I said, I'm not getting into the question of whether or not he shoulda known better -- it's just that, working with DC at that time, I can see how it might be easy to forget that you're working with the division of an enormous entertainment conglomerate (and you ought to be more careful, maybe a bit more suspicious).

A Week Ago Tuesday: My blog, where I never, ever write about comics (though I think I did, once or twice).

fubarthepanda

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Posts: 8920

Mar 13 12 10:23 PM

KOBE27 wrote:
Thanks for the link, MG. As always, it's a delight to read an Alan Moore interview.

For sure! Great link. Not only is Moore comics' greatest writer, he's their best interview as well...! But I thought this was a good piece -- the interviewer asked a lot of the direct questions that we were debating last month on this board and Moore gave thoroughly complete answers to them. I guess my biggest issue with Before Watchmen -- beyond the fact that it's editorially driven and not a genuine exercise in creativity -- is that you have the work coming out at a time when the creator is both alive and actively speaking out against it. I was thinking about this yesterday when the solicits came out and I definitely have lost a bit of respect for the creators involved -- most of them are big enough names to be able to get work-for-hire paychecks doing something else instead of joining the editors and managers involved in this morally dubious venture. But I am excited that we'll be getting a double dose of League comics later this year!

droid714

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Posts: 10319

Mar 13 12 11:09 PM

pdilley wrote:
Ditto the droid. And I'm not a Watchman fan; I've never read it, and probably never will. patrick

I think you may have misunderstood me. I fully intend to read all 35 volumes of "Before Watchmen." And I'll happily honor his wishes and read nothing else of his.

Joe Borowski, the best closer in the A.L. in 2007!

pdilley

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Posts: 341

Mar 14 12 2:14 AM

I don't think I misunderstood. I am going to read the Darwin Cooke produced titles, even though I never read the original. And I gave up on Moore's work somewhere around year two of Promethea.

kirbyfanatic

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Posts: 1816

Mar 14 12 12:55 PM

Medieval Guy wrote:

psykomyko wrote:
It's nice to see a publisher step up and let Moore do the talking, instead of just badly summarizing his feelings about this sad situation.
Yeah, it's nice to see his position summed up thoroughly in his own words.

I remain blown away by his apparent naivété...that he could sign a work-for-hire contract with one of the biggest conglomerates on Earth without understanding what was in it because "they'd all been very, very friendly" still boggles my mind a little. He remains a maddening blend of game-changing genius and somebody completely divorced from the realities of the business he found himself in. I also wish he wouldn't be so strident in expecting others to live by his own rather eccentric standards.

But he sure does have a brilliant body of work behind him.

Much as I hate to say it, Moore was naive. He had an opportunity to have an attorney look over the contract he signed, I'm sure, and didn't avail himself of it. For him to expect a comics publisher to act like anything other than the vipers they are was a serious mistake, as I've yet to hear of an account where any publisher acted out of kind motives. And now he's paying for it. A shame, but that's the way it is.

Allen Smith

psykomyko

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Posts: 2367

Mar 14 12 3:27 PM

Heidi MacDonald offers some thoughts here:

http://www.comicsbeat.com...rongs-dont-make-a-right/

The usual comments follow, but Eric Shanower chimes in with an interesting point about copyright.

And, in case anyone cares, I posted some thoughts on my website yesterday. The publisher of the interview wrote me to say he liked what I wrote, FWIW.

Mike Hansen

All Day Comics
alldaycomics.com

Medieval Guy

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Posts: 4836

Mar 14 12 4:19 PM

psykomyko wrote:
...Eric Shanower chimes in with an interesting point about copyright.

Although I wonder if that will apply?

Remember, Watchmen started out as a DC assignment to revamp the Charleton characters. Of course it evolved into something much more, but it's conceivable that the contract (which Moore may not have read) spelled it out as a work-for-hire assignment, in which case copyright termination wouldn't apply.

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Alan Moore talks Watchmen. At great length.

Alan Moore talks Watchmen. At great length.