profh0011 wrote:
It's just typical that when I post one of my best posts (and one told in an entertaining, and even funny, manner) that someone has to waste 3 whole paragraphs needlessly focusing on ONE small point, and trying to defend a man who is INDEFENSIBLE.


Stan clearly hired Jack Kirby so Jack could do his writing for him, which Stan then took BOTH CREDIT AND PAY for. Stan's a crook, and he learned from the best.
I hope you don't break your arm patting yourself on the back so strongly.

If my 3 paragraphs were a waste, why did it require a two paragraphs in response?

Your one "small point" wasn't a point, it was a farbication. You alleged that Stan did something that has never been proved. You simply repeated gossip as if it were fact and then used this unproved allegation to smear him.

You are not the judge, jury and executioner and really cannot determine what is "indefensible" for those of us who wish to defend him. And in plain point of fact, accusing a man of something he strongly denies doing and for which there is not one shred of evidence showing he did it is in itself an indefensible act.

It can never be proved exactly how much or how little was Stan's input in the plotting of books he worked on with Jack. Stan's own admission at the time (back when it was happening) was that it varied from fairly detailed ideas for plots to something as simple as "let's bring back Dr. Doom this issue."

What can be proved is that Stan did have creative input into the finsihed process based on pages of Jack's raw art that we've seen published in magazine such as The Jack Kirby Colector. Those clearly show that the plot and dialog of the finished comics varied, often significantly, from the story as Jack outlined it in the margins. Sounds like way too much work if Stan just wanted to take credit and let Jack do the writing.

What can also be proved is that there is a certifiable difference between the comics that Jack Kirby and Steve Dikto produced on their own and those they produced in collaboration with Lee.

In fact, the story told by Jack about finding Marvel in dire straights and marching into Goodman's office vowing to create new characters and save the company is highly doubtful as Jack returned in 1958. The first issue of the Fantastic Four debuted in 1961. Why did it take Kirby so long to think of those characters? Unless of course, the story told by everybody else is the true one. That Jack was desperate for work after getting into a dispute with an editor at DC (sound familair?)

In fact, DC's Jack Schiff accused Kirby of cheating HIM out of royalties. What's more, Schiff sued Kirby and won!

But as I said above - why let facts get in the way when you've already made up your mind?



richard63:

ROTFLMAO! Obviously, it's only wrong to claim credit if your name is Stan Lee.