alexarkadin wrote:
czeskleba wrote:
Alex, I don't know why you are so focused on the character creation issue in this discussion. The judge makes it clear she is not ruling on who created the characters. The rationale she uses for determining the work Kirby did was for hire would apply regardless of whether Kirby created everything himself, Stan created everything himself, or something in between.

The judge doesn't even appear to completely accept Lee's version of events. In her description of the creation of the FF, she writes that "Lee and Kirby co-created the Fantastic Four. At their first plotting conference, Lee and Kirby discussed ideas for the first issue. Kirby then produced the pencil drawings for the issue." That certainly doesn't gibe with Lee's version of events... if anything, it sounds more like Evanier's scenario.
The judge mentions earlier that FF #1 was based on a plot outline created by Stan Lee before ever speaking to Kirby.
Her ruling is kind of sloppy and misstates a number of trivial facts, like the comment about Nick Fury.
In Lee's depositions for the case he goes through ever major character created during the years in question and says the same thing every time. He created the characters before ever speaking to the artists, and gave the characters and plots to the artists to pencil.
This question should be easy to clear up. Stan Lee does interviews very often. All anyone need do is ask him one question:
"Mr. Lee can you name one character during the years 1958-1963 which Jack Kirby created alone and brought to you?"

In any case, I disagree with the idea of "creation" as used by the judge.  Creation in a comic book isn't complete until story and art are combined to create the comic book, or the character featured in the comic book.  Comics are both visual (the art) and conceptual (plot, story) so that though Stan might have started a process, even if we take his word for it, is only the first part of the process.  Kirby's art and whatever else he contributed to the process completed the creative process.  That's why a writer and an artist are co creators, the creation isn't made just when someone has an idea.

       Allen Smith