profh0011 wrote:
It's a DISGRACE. An entire message board full of trolls CELEBRATING the triumph of a FACELESS CORPORATION over a CREATOR. A corporation which has infinite financial resources at its disposal, which CREATES NOTHING, and which continues to OWN and CONTROL the work of others, because of outdated CRIMINAL GANGSTER mentality and behavior.
So many exaggerations and mis-characterizations.

The entire board has not been filled with people celebrating what you claim. There have been people, including you, lamenting the decision. So "entire" is incorrect.

"Trolls" as I understand the term are people who post on websites simply to stir up trouble or get people mad. Most of us posting that we agree with the decision are hardly "trolls." We post here regularly on a variety of topics - most of the time in peace and harmony. Or do you apply the term "troll" to anyone who has a different opinion on a subject than yours?

"Celebrating" does not mean the same thing as agreeing. On the previous Kirby vs. Marvel thread, I and many others expressed this opinion: We wish Jack Kirby had been able to receive more compensation for the characters and concepts he created for Marvel Comics.

However, we understand the point of law at issue here. We are agreeing with the court that Jack Kirby created things for Marvel under a work for hire agreement. Further, even if Jack Kirby never knew the specific term "work for hire," he definitely knew the conditions of his employment. I don't "celebrate" the facts, but I do acknowledge them.

This is not a case of what is "fair" or "what I think should happen." It is a case of law.

"Faceless corporation" is another loaded term as the corporation is really not faceless, but a collection of people who have invested money for the purposes of running a for-profit business.

The founder of the company was not faceless. He was Walt Disney - who knew something about creator rights, having had his first successful cartoon creation (Oswald the Lucky Rabbit) ripped away from him by his distributor. Instead of boo-hooing and leaving it up to his heirs to sue, he went back to his partner Ub Iwerks and they dreamed up a new character named Mickey Mouse.

From then on, many great artists and creators came to the Disney Studios, but they all knew their work was owned by the company. Without the financial backing of the company, there would have been no Snow White, no Fantasia, no Donald Duck because no group of creators could have secured the financial backing to make those things possible nor to secure distribution.

profh0011 wrote:
Personally, few things would please me more than to see both Marvel and DC go BELLY UP and disappear from the face of the planet. Maybe then, actual creators with new, fresh ideas and characters might have a chance to thrive.
Really? If there were no publishing companies, do you really think creators could also find time and have the talent to scrape the financing to get their books printed, distributed and promoted?

The one company that did that is Image Comics. They made a huge initial splash, but aren't really much of a force now. And outside of Spawn, haven't been that successful at getting their properties into where the big money is - film & TV production. And they were building their company on the foundation (especially in distribution outlets) that had been created to serve those "faceless corporations."

Without DC and Marvel to give the Image artists their start and to help them build their names and reputations - without DC and Marvel's comic books leading to the creation of the distribution companies and comic book shops, how on earth could Image Comics ever have gotten off the ground?


Jack Kirby with Joe Simon tried to publish their own comic books. They flopped at it. In my experience most creative types are not very good at business. That's why business types start companies and then hire the creative types to produce for them.

Without those "faceless corporations" you seem to dislike, there would have been no comic industry in the 1960's for Jack Kirby to create characters for.

And there are fresh ideas and characters hitting the market every single day. Walk into a comic book store and look at all the different titles. New ones coming and going all the time. Add to that books, TV, video games, and movies. There is no shortage of new characters or ideas.