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Feb 21 17 10:25 AM
deejayway wrote:You're a comics fan so you're prone to hero worship. I think Simon & Kirby were a couple a kids having fun and Goodman was eager to sell a million comics.
Has Goodman ever been portrayed as a man who took a moral stance on anything? He was first and foremost a canny businessman and if he had thought that that cover would encroach on his profit margin, he wouldn't have done it.
I'm not saying the comparison with Bin Laden is apt, but there were calls for such a cover, inspired by the same kind of peurile power fantasies.
Feb 21 17 10:28 AM
supersteel wrote:i always take these "We had to call the FBI" stories with a grain of salt. They seem pretty exaggerated.
Feb 21 17 2:26 PM
Feb 21 17 2:30 PM
Feb 21 17 2:50 PM
Tribe wrote:I'm curious. Did the political content of comics ever become an issue before the congressional investigation in the fifties? Or was is trictly a sex and gore witch hunt?
LEGEND: The famous Superman phrase “truth, justice and the American way” did not originally contain the part about “the American Way.”
There was a little bit of controversy over the seemingly pointed omission of the term “the American Way” in the phrase “Truth, Justice and the American Way” in the recent Superman film, Superman Returns.
The phrase has become ingrained in the world of popular culture through its use in the popular Adventures of Superman television series which ran from 1952-1958, where it was part of the opening of every episode:
Faster than a speeding bullet! More powerful than a locomotive! Able to leap tall buildings in a single bound! (“Look! Up in the sky!” “It’s a bird!” “It’s a plane!” “It’s Superman!”)… Yes, it’s Superman … strange visitor from another planet, who came to Earth with powers and abilities far beyond those of mortal men! Superman … who can change the course of mighty rivers, bend steel in his bare hands, and who, disguised as Clark Kent, mild-mannered reporter for a great metropolitan newspaper, fights a never-ending battle for truth, justice, and the American way! And now, another exciting episode, in The Adventures of Superman!
However, when the “never-ending battle for…” phrase originally appeared, it was in the popular Adventures of Superman radio series that ran from 1940-1951
And there, the introduction went:
Yes, it’s Superman–strange visitor from another planet who came to Earth with powers and abilities far beyond those of mortal men. Superman–defender of law and order, champion of equal rights, valiant, courageous fighter against the forces of hate and prejudice, who, disguised as Clark Kent, mild-mannered reporter for a great metropolitan newspaper, fights a never-ending battle for truth and justice.
That basic opening (“a never-ending battle for truth and justice”) was later used in 1941 for the acclaimed Fleischer Studios Superman animated serials…
It was not until the middle of 1942, with the United States firmly entrenched in World War II that the term “the American Way” was added to the opening of the series. But later in the decade, by the time the war ended, it was dropped once again.
But the TV series picked it up, and that has become the way the phrase has been known ever since (Christopher Reeve even explicitly says it in the 1978 Superman film). Now you know, though, that omitting “the American Way” is only taking the phrase back to its origins!
Feb 21 17 4:49 PM
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Feb 21 17 5:04 PM
Feb 21 17 5:30 PM
Green Arrow by Denny O'Neal and Neal Adams is the run that got all the attention back in the 70s for its activism, but its tactic for doing so was like getting hit on the head with a sledgehammer. Captain America was a mixed bag as it tackled political commentary sometimes pretty flagrantly (punching out Hitler, urban chaos in Harlem, Nixon as a supervillain), and other times in a more stealthy manner (Mark Gruenwald's run).
Of all comic characters, Cap SHOULD be a book that pretty much constantly should tackle politics every issue, whether overtly or secretly. The recent Winter Soldier film kinda sorta had a political subtext with its callback to 70s political thriller style, but I kinda dread that the comic itself, since Marvel is nowadays owned by the Disney company, it will never become too extreme or opiniated for fear of alienating any of its readership.
I recently read the first Sam Wilson:Captain America tpb since I remembered some tv pundit outrage when the story was first released (which was eventually totally eclipsed a few months later when Cap uttered ''Hail Hydra!''). But I read this earlier story which got some heat because it showed a white supremacist-flavored supergroup (the Sons of the Serpent, who've been so for at least 30 years) and also Mexican illegals.
Unusual tidbits to be inserted in the usual superhero slugfests, but after reading the story I was left disappointed that these two potentially incendiary topics had about as much bite as a Wikipedia entry. ''White supremacists are like this, Mexican illegals experience this as they cross the border...''. They even had the original Viper back alive (whu?) at the head of the Serpent Society (who are now called Serpent solutions...meh!), who used to be portrayed as corporate lawyer types, but now seem like Wall Street trader types.
Lots of exposition as nick spencer the writer fills up his pages with a lot of right-wing/left wing talking points, but I finished the book at the end with about as much emotional involvement as the Star wars prequel trilogy with all its ''Tell don't show'' narrative. Same here for the Serpents who just engage in a boring slugfest with the Falcon and his new sidekick (so 2 non-powered fighter types can now easily beat up about a dozen supertypes?)
I mentioned Mark Gruenwald's run earlier with its stealth politics, well that was more in finding real-world themes as templates for his self-mandate of replenishing Captain America's then-stale rogue's gallery back in the 80s. This was the Reagan era which was perfect fodder for supervillain themes: SuperPatriot with his selfish corporate copycat theme. FlagSmasher with his 80s nihilism and cynicism. rightWinger and LeftWinger and their more-twins-than-they-sometimes-think image. The Watchdogs which blended white supremacist groups with Parent Standards and Practices groups which rose back then (goody goody media watchdogs that they were).
Anyway, Cap as a book and a concept should become a lens for societal discussion and more than it should be shocking and controversial, it should tackle global topics as well as local ones (for years I have yearned for a storyline where Cap hopscotches the planet and crosses paths with established teams or single characters that are linked with various countries, like red Guardian from Russia, the collective Man from China or even the Kinsmen from Ireland who are a personal favorite). Stories where customs or biases towards these regions are discussed (I've been to China twice by now, and I always chortle when I hear people talking about how they are subservient communists. communists? geez they were nuts for cel phones way before North America was...)
I don't expect this character to follow such a path, but damn it would be an interesting ride if it did...
Feb 21 17 6:35 PM
supersteel wrote:i dont read the early superman as particularly lefty. I dont think using violence to solve problems is something i associate, historically, with the left in this country. (although since Trump's election and even before but then that is a new left....).
Feb 21 17 7:08 PM
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Feb 22 17 7:23 AM
supersteel wrote:I just dont think the issues he tackled were particularly left wing. Hardly a "Government is the answer" in many of the cases.
Feb 22 17 1:35 PM
Feb 22 17 1:46 PM
goatgoblet wrote:Ed Brubaker said somewhere that when he took over writing Captain America in 2005 he got feedback from both sides of the political spectrum. The right wanted to see Cap overseas punching Osama Bin Laden,
Feb 22 17 3:04 PM
Feb 22 17 6:04 PM
Feb 22 17 6:48 PM
Tribe wrote:Has Finger & Kane's Batman of the 40's ever had any political connotations amongst comics intelligensia? Or was the character strictly an avenging populist?
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