Editorial censoring in Wonder Woman Chronicles - Confirmed in DC Archives Message Board Forum

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Editorial censoring in Wonder Woman Chronicles - Confirmed

Author	Comment
psykomyko		#61	[-]
Posts: 2338 Feb 22 12 4:13 PM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Allen Ross wrote: Digging out my list again from the Most Reprinted thread: Detective Comics (1937 series) #27 (May 1939): "The Case of the Chemical Syndicate" [first appearance]: reprinted in: 1. Batman (1939 series) #200 [first page only] 2. Detective Comics (1937 series) #387 (May 1969) [edited] 3. Batman From the Thirties to the Seventies (Crown Publishers, 1971 series) #73-168329 (1971) [edited] 4. Famous First Edition (1974 series) #C-28 (1974) [unedited] 5. Dynamite Magazine #2 (Scholastic, April 1974) [? not sure of details] 6. A Smithsonian Book of Comic-Book Comics (Smithsonian Institution Press, 1981 series) nn (1981) [unedited] 7. Detective Comics Collector's Edition #27 (Oreo giveaway, 1984) [???] 8. Batman Archives (1990 series) vol. 1 ([June] 1990) [edited] 9. Detective Comics (1937 series) #627 (March 1991) [edited] 10. Millennium Edition: Detective Comics 27 (2000 series) #nn (February 2000) [unedited] 11. Batman in the Forties (2004 series) #nn (2004) [unedited] 12. Batman Chronicles (2005 series) vol. 1 (2005) [edited] 13. Batman Begins - Special DVD Issue (2005 series) #nn (2005) [edited] That's a fantastic list. Thanks for taking the time to post that! It's nice to see valuable and useful information posted on the DC boards. It's great that the unedited material is available for those who want it. It'd be even better (to me) if this was an actual policy (to catalog and fix previous changes), like Disney finally allowing its classic comics to be reprinted unedited by Fantagraphics. (But, as I said, it's not a dealbreaker.) I don't see it happening, but I also think it'd be cool if reprints could be "updated" as better materials became available - like the Detective #27 production proofs that came to light last year with much sharper linework than ever seen in print: http://www.bleedingcool.c...ook-at-first-batman-art/ Osgood Peabody wrote: I see. So you've never heard the phrase "censor yourself"? A few of us here could do a better job of it! To quote Lana from Archer: "Yeeeaauuuuuuuuuuuuuup." Mike Hansen All Day Comics alldaycomics.com
Fin Fang Foom		#62	[-]
Posts: 9366 Feb 22 12 4:26 PM Registered Member Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Under the same token, I'm sure that the depiction of Chop-Chop in the GA Blackhawk series is what's keeping any further Blackhawk archives from the market. I would imagine that -- and, you know, low sales, and the lack of any real interest, stuff like that -- would keep it out of being reprinted in a format other than the Archives (assuming there were any interest in reprinting it in the Archives.) On the other hand, the depiction of Ebony in Spirit didnt? Right? Again, I think this is an instance where specific circumstances might make a difference. Not in that anyone would be any less likely to be offended by that stuff in The Spirit, but because of the importance of the material, a publisher might be more willing to take the risk. I can't imagine there wouldn't be some hesitation, though, if it were a question of repackaging that material in a series of $20 mass market paperbacks. (That, and The Spirit isn't owned by DC or Warner Bros., it had only been licensed, and there wasn't a zillion dollars worth of product licensing built around the character.) In The Back Of Beyond: My photography blog. Everything seen through the camera of my iPhone. Last Edited By: Fin Fang Foom Feb 22 12 4:51 PM. Edited 1 times.
dlc320		#63	[-]
Posts: 1879 Feb 22 12 5:34 PM Modern Age Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	I loved the 1st Blackhawks DC Archives. I thought the stories and art were excellent for a 40's comic. Likewise for the Spirit collections. Great comic art and storytelling from the beginings of "funny books". I own the collected Monstery Society of Evil hardback and enjoyed it also. I am an adult, an old adult. Born in the late 40's grew up in the 50's and 60's. From one perspective I saw the world and understood it. I choose not to compare that world to this one. Both have good and bad points. From that standpoint I can enjoy what was/is good and not have to be offended to the point of distraction. I do not have to impose my ideas and values on anyone else. So me, I figure low sales of volume one has kept there from being a volume two on Blackhawk. Spirit, must have made money, at least more than Blackhawk. And Monster Society, like other Captain Marvel projects did not hold enough money promise to make the investment worth the effort.
whoswhoz		#64	[-]
Posts: 757 Feb 22 12 5:46 PM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Any number of precode stories reprinted by DC in the sixties and seventies were redrawn or altered to meet the Comics Code restrictions. One of the most obvious being "The Gorilla Boss of Gotham City" which you can see here. http://dccomicsartists.com/batman/Schwartz.htm
Phonics Monkey Vol 2		#65	[-]
Posts: 6169 Feb 22 12 7:26 PM Registered Member Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Okay...now who here wouldn't buy a re-released Archives Vol. 1 WITH the knife in the back? Junk Food For Thought- The Consumer Reports of collected editions.Turning OCD into a lifestyle choice. DC Collected Editions Fans Who Want Sewn Bindings and Books That Lay Flat- a watchdog organization dedicated to superior book production. Join us.
Osgood Peabody		#66	[-]
Posts: 3828 Feb 22 12 7:51 PM DC Forum Moderator Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Nah, I think they should offer everyone knife stickers and a little packet of red ink... "As for contentment, that is a myth. Give a man everything he wishes and he will be unhappy, because he didn't wish for more; give him more, and he will die of his worries. Only a turtle, asleep on a sunny log, knows contentment!" -Merlin to Prince Valiant Hal Foster 3-7-43
psykomyko		#67	[-]
Posts: 2338 Feb 22 12 8:35 PM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Well, they could just fix/improve it in the next edition, like Marvel would. But that would make too much sense... Mike Hansen All Day Comics alldaycomics.com
DavidTai		#68	[-]
Posts: 16562 Feb 22 12 8:42 PM Forum Moderator Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Idly, Mike - how the heck did you handle the censorship issues for manga over at Dark Horse? -------------- Brother Eye is watching. --------------
Fin Fang Foom		#69	[-]
Posts: 9366 Feb 22 12 8:47 PM Registered Member Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Out of curiousity, how close are either of the Archives to reprinting any of these redrawn stories? I'd say there's a possibility that if someone determines that the film for a reprint is available (assuming it is available), it might be used in lieu of paying for digital reconstruction. That's unless it's clear that the work has been altered for the reprint, of course. I'm sure, if there were any kind of motivation for DC to go back to press on that first Batman volume -- you know, something like strong sales of the Archives in general these days! -- the "reprint" version could easily be replaced with the "Millenium Edition" version. (I believe some of the Masterworks had to wait for the work to be re-packaged -- or in some cases, re-re-packaged -- in the "Omnibus" format and in paperback, for significant improvements to become available. That's one reason why I just buy the paperbacks.) Then again, who knows -- the 75th anniversary is coming up in a few years, after all. In The Back Of Beyond: My photography blog. Everything seen through the camera of my iPhone. Last Edited By: Fin Fang Foom Feb 22 12 8:55 PM. Edited 1 times.
seattleguy		#70	[-]
Posts: 1004 Feb 22 12 9:03 PM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	After seeing DC get cold feet about the Captain Marvel and the Monsters of Evil Society Archives why am I not surprised about all of this.
richard63		#71	[-]
Posts: 12674 Feb 22 12 10:39 PM Registered Member Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Osgood Peabody wrote: Nah, I think they should offer everyone knife stickers and a little packet of red ink... I know you're joking, but I have to say that wouldn't do it, because the entire story was unfaithfully redrawn and relettered in the version reprinted in the Archives. The true to the original reprint from Batman in the Forties: The "counterfeit" version, from Batman Archives, Volume 1: He's faster than a bullet, stronger than a train He's the one who got lucky, got his cape around miss Lois Lane I can't believe my dilemma is real I'm competing with the Man of Steel - "Jimmy Olsen's Blues" by the Spin Doctors Last Edited By: richard63 Feb 22 12 10:43 PM. Edited 1 times.
psykomyko		#72	[-]
Posts: 2338 Feb 22 12 10:39 PM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	DavidTai wrote: Idly, Mike - how the heck did you handle the censorship issues for manga over at Dark Horse? It actually wasn't an issue that often. Generally, Toren Smith would offer suggestions, since his company (Studio Proteus) was doing all of the translation/retouch work on Dark Horse's manga at that time. Since most of the manga was already aimed at "mature" readers, it wasn't necessary 99% of the time to cover up or white out any artwork. Heck, we even left in the child nudity in Lone Wolf and Cub! But I can't recall a single letter from anyone complaining about any "objectionable" content. The philosophy behind any changes was to make them as invisible as possible, and present the work in as respectful a way as possible to the creators' intent - notwithstanding the mostly flipped artwork so it could be read left-to-right. The only specific examples I can think of were the first volume of Gunsmith Cats (which was censored in the Japanese edition as well, and Toren thought it'd be better to just leave it as-is than "uncensor" it like he did for Eros Comix' manga line) and the two main Ghost in the Shell stories (which each had around 2-3 pages of gratuitous/hardcore X-rated action removed with the artist's blessing). Those were before/after my time, though. The vast majority of art retouch was due to "Americanized" art balloon sizes and shapes, English sound effects, and (in the case of Blade of the Immortal) cut-and-pasted unflipped panels in a left-to-right reading order (per the creator's request). I thought the retouch artists did a pretty terrific job making the translated work seamless, even when having to add/extend bits of artwork in each panel. These days, with Toren Smith retired, Dark Horse seems to have left Japanese sound effects as-is in its (now right-to-left) manga volumes and just added English next to them. It saves a lot of time, and the hardcore fans may find it more "authentic," but it's distracting to me! Mike Hansen All Day Comics alldaycomics.com
Phonics Monkey Vol 2		#73	[-]
Posts: 6169 Feb 23 12 6:04 AM Registered Member Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Ugh. Those panels are horrible. I can't believe how much linework has been obliterated. Now I really hope that DC remasters Archive Vol. 1, although I doubt they ever will. Marvel at least goes back and fixes mistakes and/or bad restoration on new printings. Junk Food For Thought- The Consumer Reports of collected editions.Turning OCD into a lifestyle choice. DC Collected Editions Fans Who Want Sewn Bindings and Books That Lay Flat- a watchdog organization dedicated to superior book production. Join us.
carva9		#74	[-]
Posts: 1 Feb 24 12 12:29 AM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	richard63 wrote: Osgood Peabody wrote: Nah, I think they should offer everyone knife stickers and a little packet of red ink... I know you're joking, but I have to say that wouldn't do it, because the entire story was unfaithfully redrawn and relettered in the version reprinted in the Archives. The true to the original reprint from Batman in the Forties: The "counterfeit" version, from Batman Archives, Volume 1: WHAT??! I didn't know about it. Did they use a redrawn version for the Chronicles?, that's the one I have. I so DC is garbage
psykomyko		#75	[-]
Posts: 2338 Feb 24 12 1:45 AM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	That's one of the worst comics things I've ever seen. I could be nice and say we've come a long way in 22 years, but that redrawing is crap. Somebody needs a face-punching. Mike Hansen All Day Comics alldaycomics.com
Jed Raven		#76	[-]
Posts: 220 Feb 24 12 5:41 AM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	carva9 wrote: richard63 wrote: Osgood Peabody wrote: Nah, I think they should offer everyone knife stickers and a little packet of red ink... I know you're joking, but I have to say that wouldn't do it, because the entire story was unfaithfully redrawn and relettered in the version reprinted in the Archives. The true to the original reprint from Batman in the Forties: The "counterfeit" version, from Batman Archives, Volume 1: WHAT??! I didn't know about it. Did they use a redrawn version for the Chronicles?, that's the one I have. I so DC is garbage Unfortunately, they did. I checked. Glad I never got rid of my 'Batman in the 40s' TPB, now. And yes, DC is garbage, no matter how hard FFF tries to excuse their every sloppy, contemptuous blunder.
Phonics Monkey Vol 2		#77	[-]
Posts: 6169 Feb 24 12 5:57 AM Registered Member Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Let's get our pitchforks and torches and storm DC's offices...OCCUPY DC! Kidding. I hope that at some point they do a Golden Age Batman Omnibus and use correct files (which they obviously have since they used them in the other book) and/or remaster the issues. These issues are historically significant enough that they deserve to be treated with the highest respect. Junk Food For Thought- The Consumer Reports of collected editions.Turning OCD into a lifestyle choice. DC Collected Editions Fans Who Want Sewn Bindings and Books That Lay Flat- a watchdog organization dedicated to superior book production. Join us.
mwiggins.dmbforum		#78	[-]
Posts: 1204 Feb 24 12 9:46 AM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Phonics Monkey Vol 2 wrote: Let's get our pitchforks and torches and storm DC's offices...OCCUPY DC! Kidding. I hope that at some point they do a Golden Age Batman Omnibus and use correct files (which they obviously have since they used them in the other book) and/or remaster the issues. These issues are historically significant enough that they deserve to be treated with the highest respect. Redone versions of the stories in those very early Batman and Superman Archives would be much appreciated. They've repackaged those issues cheaply in the Chronicles, now's their chance to repackage them again in a high end hardcover format. Come on DC, I want my Absolute Golden Age Superman. Last Edited By: mwiggins Feb 24 12 9:57 AM. Edited 1 times.
Fin Fang Foom		#79	[-]
Posts: 9366 Feb 24 12 12:09 PM Registered Member Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	I don't think that's the kind of work that's going to hold up to being enlarged, particularly if the source is a digital reconstruction (which is going to reveal raster edges, imperfections in the printed line, et cetera). A Week Ago Tuesday: My blog, where I never, ever write about comics (though I think I did, once or twice).
embmmusic		#80	[-]
Posts: 83 Feb 24 12 1:38 PM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	I've searched a few pages back in this thread and can't find an answer to this, maybe I'm just blind - does anyone know why exactly those Batman panels were redrawn?

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Editorial censoring in Wonder Woman Chronicles - Confirmed