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Re-presenting old comics with Fully Rendered Color? ASM #40 - LEGACY Of the GOBLIN

Author	Comment
profh0011		#41	[-]
Posts: 223 (08/18/08 12:09 AM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite	Oh, MAN! Gil Kane's cover was NEVER meant to look like THAT! I actually "played around" with a Gil Kane cover in Photoshop once... (Actually I "played around" with quite a few Gil Kane covers.) Here's an "extreme" example where I didn't care for the line rendering, and replaced it with color! http://www.webspawner.com/users/zodiaccomics/imageGallery/SM%2052_c_O%20700.jpg
Grabrich		#42	[-]
Posts: 110 (08/18/08 12:20 AM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite	FourColorProcess: I pretty much agree with all of your post. But what do you make of the "dimly lit" lighting, that I commented on? Do you agree that there seems to be too much "dark" colouring in a lot of today's comics (this example included), when the scenes call for more "natural" lighting? To Lovern: Good to have you join the board! Richard G. (fellow Manitoban)
Grabrich		#43	[-]
Posts: 111 (08/18/08 12:23 AM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite	Hi Henry, Well at least your example is not dimly lit. Richard G. (still digging the 60s Spidey music, thanks)
FourColorProcess		#44	[-]
Posts: 76 (08/18/08 1:03 AM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite	Grabrich wrote: FourColorProcess: I pretty much agree with all of your post. But what do you make of the "dimly lit" lighting, that I commented on? Do you agree that there seems to be too much "dark" colouring in a lot of today's comics (this example included), when the scenes call for more "natural" lighting? Yeah, it's like there's a uniform grey haze over nearly everything in the Iron Fist example, regardless of what enviromnent or setting is being depicted. Many current comics are too dark. Which reminds me of a great quote I happened to be read earlier this evening. It's Roger Stern, in response to a question about Avengers #1 1/2 and The Incredible Hulk vs. Superman, etc. It was just such a joy to work on stories that had rectilinear panels with gutters and white space! My god, when I first started to work in comics, the paper that the books were printed on was already yellow! "Already yellowed for your protection," as I used to say. You couldn't refer to someone in a story as "driving a white car," without having readers write in, "That car's not white, it's beige." Sorry for going off on a tangent there, but one of the things that really bugs me about most comics these days is the lack of white space. I mean, we finally have paper that is WHITE, and the artists and/or colorists seem determined to cover every last square millimeter with color - often over-rendered color - to the point where you can't see anything. It just makes my eyes bleed. http://www.marvelessentials.com/features/int_stern_1006_3.html
WayneLW	Wow, . . .	#45	[-]
Posts: 25 (08/18/08 2:00 AM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite	Is it just me, or is there an unusually large number of us Manitobans (or in my case, Manitoban in exile) here? Staying more on topic, having bought the aforementioned Mr. Miracle collection with the Dave Stewart-colored cover, I fully believe that the right coloring can look really nice on older artwork. Unfortunately, some modern colorists over-render with the color and are not capable of doing what Stewart did so well on that cover.
edulopez		#46	[-]
Posts: 810 (08/18/08 5:11 AM) Silver Age Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite	A couple of things. 1) To Lovern K: glad to see you joined the forum. I have always considered you one of the top colorists in the business. I never cared for over-rendender colorists in the style of Liquid! which were all the rage in the late nineties. They only covered the artwork and made everything look metalic. When I think of you, it comes to my mind, among other things, the fabulous job you did with the Dr. Strange special by Craig Russell, or the Fairy Tales of Oscar Wilde, or a dozen other things, and I think: man, that's how classy coloring should be done!!! So I hope someday you get your wish to color classic Kirby artwork. I'll be the first in line to buy it! 2) About Roger Stern's quote. I agree absolutely with everythin he said. 3) Yes, nowadays most of the comics are over-colored and over-rendered, too dark, and full of unncessary details (fleshtones, colored muscles, etc) that the only thing they accomplish is not letting the reader (or at least me) to enjoy the beauty of the linework. It seems most of the modern colorists haven't heard the old saying that says "less is more".
famac		#47	[-]
Posts: 482 (08/18/08 2:30 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite	From a purely business perspective, you have to wonder about the cost/benefit of paying someone to color in the modern style (those Iron Fist examples being my definition). It has to cost a fortune. I know it takes me at least 2 hours to flat a page (flats being the colors prior to effects). With years and years of declining sales, one would think a focus group with a bunch of Joe Blow Averages might shed some light on whether the coloring is hurting or helping sales. I know that everyone I know who used to read comics is totally turned off when they see a this style of coloring. Why spend the money if it not helping, and perhaps hurting? Those Kane pages are a travesty, and I completely agree that the coloring on the interlude would have been far preferable. Like Picasso said (and I'm working from memory) "why use a thousand lines where one will do."
profh0011		#48	[-]
Posts: 226 (08/18/08 7:49 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite	"Like Picasso said (and I'm working from memory) "why use a thousand lines where one will do."" Reminds me of when Bob Harras wrote NICK FURY VS. SHIELD. He'd used 500 words when 50 would do...
profh0011		#49	[-]
Posts: 227 (08/18/08 7:55 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite	"Hi Henry, Well at least your example is not dimly lit." Thanks. "All" I did was replace the excessive line-rendering on Namor's figure with color designed to emulate the exact same muscles... and replaced the background... and eliminated that restrictive 3-sided border and that annoying "MCG" banner... and replaced the dull corner pic with the one Bill Everett redrew (6 months later!), and replace the dull redo of the "50's" logo with one in a similar configuration, but which to me, said "REGAL". And I got rid of about HALF of the words in Roy Thomas' word balloons... (Yeah-- that's "ALL"! heehee) I got a whole set of "fantasy versions" of old covers, and what surprised even me was how many Gil Kane covers I "improved" on. http://www.webspawner.com/users/zodiaccomics/fantasycomicboo.html You gotta scroll to the bottom and find the tiny "GALLERY" button to get to the rest of 'em.
famac		#50	[-]
Posts: 483 (08/18/08 8:03 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite	Some nice stuff in here, but I like the MCG banner.
The Beyonder2		#51	[-]
Posts: 2240 (08/18/08 9:55 PM) Registered Member Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite	I've posted this here before, but another thread had asked for some colored Romita! I whipped this off quick, and it's nowhere near as good as it could have been, but it was a fun waste of a saturday afternoon hour! I'm not 100% fond of the colouring they do on spidey's red sections with the little highlight dots, but since it was in at the time, I decided to try it here... Get ready for the Secret Wars II Omnibus! Visit SecretWarsII.com today!! Recently Added: Avengers #261 (Stern/Buscema!) Last Edited By: The Beyonder2 08/18/08 9:58 PM. Edited 1 times.
The Beyonder2		#52	[-]
Posts: 2241 (08/18/08 10:02 PM) Registered Member Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite	Again, this one I've posted before, but same style on some4 Ditko, now. Not claiming this to be the best way to do thing - just foolin' around! Get ready for the Secret Wars II Omnibus! Visit SecretWarsII.com today!! Recently Added: Avengers #261 (Stern/Buscema!)
michkelleher		#53	[-]
Posts: 33 (08/18/08 10:15 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite	The Beyonder2 wrote-- "same style on some4 Ditko, now. Not claiming this to be the best way to do thing - just foolin' around! " Thanks for sharing this stuff Beyonder! I love seeing different interpretations of the classics from colorists.
The Beyonder2		#54	[-]
Posts: 2242 (08/18/08 10:55 PM) Registered Member Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite	michkelleher wrote: The Beyonder2 wrote-- "same style on some4 Ditko, now. Not claiming this to be the best way to do thing - just foolin' around! " Thanks for sharing this stuff Beyonder! I love seeing different interpretations of the classics from colorists. I just hope that Lovern doesn't come back to this thread! I've pretty much violated nearly every colouring rule he ever taught me in the examples above! Get ready for the Secret Wars II Omnibus! Visit SecretWarsII.com today!! Recently Added: Avengers #261 (Stern/Buscema!)
profh0011		#55	[-]
Posts: 228 (08/19/08 1:41 AM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite	Here's something I did with John Romita AND Gray Morrow art (keeping in mind, I REDREW every line myself for this piece)... http://www.webspawner.com/users/zodiaccomics/imageGallery/SPIDER-MAN__insert%20%20v4A.JPG
Grabrich		#56	[-]
Posts: 113 (08/19/08 2:49 AM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite	TheBeyonder2: Yeah, I can't say that I like those "highlight dots". Interestingly, although I prefer Romita as an artist over Ditko, I found your colouring on the Ditko to have more of a 3 dimensional look than the Romita sample. WayneLW said: < Is it just me, or is there an unusually large number of us Manitobans (or in my case, Manitoban in exile) here? > What I also would like to know is how many professional colourists are Manitoban? And do they all post here? Richard G.
edulopez		#57	[-]
Posts: 811 (08/19/08 4:11 AM) Silver Age Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite	Wow, those Romita and Ditko pieces are OK as experiments, but I would really HATE to see them colored this way in real books. It just doesn't suit them.
mr Articulate	Now comes the GOBLIN!	#58	[-]
Posts: 49 (05/28/09 1:39 AM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite	This may be old news, but the May PREVIEWS lists a reprint book "the unmasking of Norman Osborn from AMAZING Spider-Man #39-40 (1966) - like you've never seen it before, fully remastered with modern coloring. Also featuring an all-new framing sequence and a Saga-style recap of the complete history of the Green Goblin" highlighting the early days of Norman Osborne - "Dark Reign: the Goblin's Legacy" reprints the unmasking two parter from ASM 39 and 40 with new framing sequences and modern coloring. I'm still waiting on my copy of Tales of Asgard to arrive, but I flipped through a copy at the LCS and it looked pretty good. It's differnent, but anyone recall the Captain America Bicentenial Battles pages of Kirby inked by Barry Windsor Smith? That pairing was unique, and I wonder if we'll ever see any publisher go THAT far and reink art for a modern audience. Last Edited By: mr Articulate 05/28/09 1:43 AM. Edited 1 times.
Grabrich		#59	[-]
Posts: 194 (05/28/09 10:12 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite	mr Articulate, I had intended to mention that "Goblin" solicit, but forgot about it! I previously indicated that I like the idea of presenting classic storylines with modern colouring, but the results so far are not exactly what I was hoping for. Both the Iron Fist story (referenced earlier in this thread) & the "Asgard" story (referenced in its own thread) are not all that they could be using modern methods, IMHO. Another poster said that the re-colouring was more reminiscent of mid-90s colouring techniques, instead of what's possible nowadays. So we'll see how the "Goblin" colouring will turn out. Richard G.
famac		#60	[-]
Posts: 657 (05/29/09 9:48 AM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite	Modern coloring on traditional inking tends to make the art look like hard candy somehow. Kind of like the art on the board game Candyland. Traditional inkers used line weight to achieve the rendered look colorists handle these days. Looking at that Ditko leg for example, the deep black line for the thigh muscle provides the depth - so when the colorits goes in and adds the same effect with color, its sort of overkill. If you could get Ditko's pen inks before he went in with the brush - that would be fun to see. There are actually a few Simon and Kirby pages out there that only have the pen inks before the stories were abandoned. I think if I was an editor, I would ask my colorists to limit their pallettes to three versions of one color. Spidey's leg is 25% magenta and 100% cyan, so you would get two variations of that - a lighter tone and a darker one would probably be most colorists choice. I like the modern tools and they are certainly very powerful, but they are often applied with reckless abandon, so limiting choices might help colorists find more tasteful approaches. Now some art looks great with heavy rendering - so I'm not trying to be critical - it just seems people don't make accomodations for the material. like we see in Tales of Asgard.

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