American Flagg! in Crisis On Infinite Comics! Forum

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American Flagg!

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Monsty		#81	[-]
Posts: 1428 Jul 26 08 7:31 AM Registered Member Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Dang it, Stu! I was hoping that the problem was isolated to the Southern Hemisphere. I guess we are all in the same boat. I actually retract my original review, Stu. Although I like the book, I really has been altered from the original comics---also, the reduced cover sizes are annoying. I wonder what Howard thinks? Perhaps Gemstone should teach a course in expensive hard cover comic book reproduction.
Chrome Aardvark		#82	[-]
Posts: 1040 Jul 26 08 8:10 AM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	*I wonder what Howard thinks?* Knowing Howard, I bet whatever he thinks is punctuated with the "F" word. Monsty, thanks for the heads up regarding the colour changes. I haven't had a chance to pull out my originals and compare them yet. Anyone else ever noticed that John Sheiskopf bears a passing resemblance to Jim Shooter? Maybe it's the haircut?
Raro		#83	[-]
Posts: 2967 Jul 26 08 8:57 AM Registered Member Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	And you all know what Scheisskopf means in English.
Chrome Aardvark		#84	[-]
Posts: 1040 Jul 27 08 6:30 AM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Raro, I've read Catch 22 too many times not to know.
exredleg		#85	[-]
Posts: 822 Jul 29 08 7:07 PM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Just got my copy in the mail ... it's been a looong wait since September 2004 when I ordred the darned thing! I thumbed through it pretty quickly ... nice print job and color, but alas ... no glossy or semi-gloss stock paper. Seem DC Omnibus-like ... perhaps a bit higher in quality, however.
Medieval Guy		#86	[-]
Posts: 4836 Jul 29 08 7:10 PM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	exredleg wrote: I thumbed through it pretty quickly ... nice print job and color, but alas ... no glossy or semi-gloss stock paper. Seem DC Omnibus-like ... perhaps a bit higher in quality, however. I'm not sure why one would want something drawn to be printed on newsprint to be on glossy or semi-glossy paper... Medieval Guy, a.k.a. Rob Helmerichs Former keeper of the Trade Paperback List
VisualFiction		#87	[-]
Posts: 13621 Jul 30 08 2:08 PM Golden Age Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	I'm fairly frustrated to hear that the covers are reduced in size. Why the F do companies do this????? Not too happy about the color changes either. I'm weighing whether I even want to get this now. I'm assuming that Mint copies can be found of the floppies and that the paper stock was good enough to prevent much color fading. If only to have full-size covers, I might go for the floppies instead. Really I just want to know what it is damned upside of shrinking the covers? "Now we're getting off focus." - the Elder Son of Storytime
Medieval Guy		#88	[-]
Posts: 4836 Jul 30 08 3:10 PM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	VisualFiction wrote: I'm fairly frustrated to hear that the covers are reduced in size. Why the F do companies do this????? Really I just want to know what it is damned upside of shrinking the covers? In this case, it looks like it was done to give them a place to put the issue credits... Medieval Guy, a.k.a. Rob Helmerichs Former keeper of the Trade Paperback List
Quicksilver		#89	[-]
Posts: 580 Jul 31 08 6:13 AM Registered Member Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Finally got my copy yesterday and I'm basically thrilled with it. i know American Flagg by reputation only but thumbing through my copy it looks like it's going to be a terrific ride. I love the compact size and feel of this volume - nice and thick, not oversized and on nice thick paper stock (matt and non-glossy). I think this paper superior to any glossy stock paper because of its thickness and because it holds the colour well. I love books that have the covers printed on sturdy and glossy boards (like the EC Archives under the DJ's). The only negative is the pain in the a** quarter DJ, but at least you can remove this and put it to one side while reading. Does not feel like a shoddy production to me but I know some of you guys are super-fusspots. Last Edited By: Quicksilver Jul 31 08 7:22 AM. Edited 3 times.
moosechoke		#90	[-]
Posts: 39 Jul 31 08 6:09 PM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	My copy is here. I've got the original floppies through issue 27, the Graphitti hardcovers that reprint the first 9 issues (and which I assume have identical guts to the early [First comics?] trade paperbacks), and this new edition. I didn't do a page by page analysis, but I compared issues 1 & 4 from the Graphitti's and 14 from the floppy, and the coloring seems very faithful to the original printed version, though the skin tones are a bit on the magenta side. Monsty seems to have really gone over the book thoroughly, but so far I haven't found any major cause for complaint. The reproduction of the Duo-Shade (which created the famous dot patterns) seems inconsistent. The early issues I looked at seem perfect. Issue 14 did look a little muddy in these areas, as if the files were run through a slight dust and scratches filter in Photoshop. I would in no way say this was a deal killer, all things considered the linework looks great. I agree that the binding's something to kvetch about. The art really does get sucked up into it. Do they do this on purpose to combat scanning? It's worse than any of the half dozen Marvel Omnimibooses I have. I can't really understand the gripe about the cover reduction. It's close to the same thing they do in the masterworks. They're reduced about 15%, maybe slightly more than standard gutter for a non-bleed comics page. Given the type of binding, there's no way you'd get to see the whole cover if they chose to go full bleed. I like the fact that they printed this on uncoated stock, but lordy this stuff sure is ultra bright! I really wish they used a slightly creamier stock. It's thick, durable stuff, and brightness issues aside if DC went with this weight paper rather than the thin stuff they used on their Kirby reprints they would have sold at least one more set. Oh, yeah... and Chip Kidd is a weenie.
Fin Fang Foom		#91	[-]
Posts: 9379 Jul 31 08 9:51 PM Registered Member Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	I agree that the binding's something to kvetch about. The art really does get sucked up into it. Do they do this on purpose to combat scanning? No, no, of course not. The problem is that art for comic books tends to be drawn with virtually no regard for binding issues, because -- well, because there are none! So when you try to reprint them in a book of this length, you either have to make the physical page size larger (and "float" the image on the page) or reduce the printed image, both of which are problematic, particularly if you've got elements that bleed.
VisualFiction		#92	[-]
Posts: 13621 Jul 31 08 10:11 PM Golden Age Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Thanks for the info, moose. Guess my math was off, I was picturing smaller covers than a 15% reduction. If it's not much smaller than the Masterworks' reprinted covers, then that's not bad. "Now we're getting off focus." - the Elder Son of Storytime
Medieval Guy		#93	[-]
Posts: 4836 Jul 31 08 10:24 PM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	VisualFiction wrote: Thanks for the info, moose. Guess my math was off, I was picturing smaller covers than a 15% reduction. If it's not much smaller than the Masterworks' reprinted covers, then that's not bad. And as I noted before, the issue credits are printed below the cover image. IIRC, in the original books they were on a text page (inside front cover?). So I'm sure the slight reduction is just to give them a place to put the credits. Medieval Guy, a.k.a. Rob Helmerichs Former keeper of the Trade Paperback List
Fin Fang Foom		#94	[-]
Posts: 9379 Aug 1 08 9:01 AM Registered Member Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Or you could just, you know, move the image closer to the outside edge and away from the gutter instead of centering it on the page. It's not rocket science, and enough publishers do it right to make those who don't look just...dumb. You could do that as well -- that function is actually built in to the page imposition software that many printers use -- but again, that depends on the size of the book (by which I mean the number of pages), and the other elements on the page. (I haven't seen this book, so I couldn't comment on it, specifically.)
AussieStu		#95	[-]
Posts: 11805 Aug 1 08 11:16 PM Golden Age Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Quicksilver wrote: Does not feel like a shoddy production to me but I know some of you guys are super-fusspots. ... SUPER-FUSSPOTS UNITE ... make sure you bring your capes ... for the regular pots, can you spot the difference? ( I will give you a hint, there are over a million of them) The Negative Zone Stan Lee, 1968: " ... And we talk it out. Lately, I've had Roy Thomas come in, and he sits and makes notes while we discuss it. Then he types them up which gives us a written synopsis. Originally-I have a little tape recorder-I had tried taping it, but then I found no one on staff has time to listen to the tape again later. But this way he makes notes, types it quickly, I get a carbon, the artist gets a carbon...so we don't have to worry that we'll forget what we've said. Then the artist goes home...or wherever he goes...and he draws the thing out, brings it back, and I put the copy in after he's drawn the story based on the plot I've given him. Now this varies with the different artists. Some artists, of course, need a more detailed plot than others. Some artists, such as Jack Kirby, need no plot at all. I mean I'll just say to Jack, 'Let's make the next villain be Dr. Doom'... or I may not even say that. He may tell me. And then he goes home and does it. He's good at plots. I'm sure he's a thousand times better than I. He just about makes up the plots for these stories. All I do is a little editing... I may tell him he's gone too far in one direction or another. Of course, occasionally I'll give him a plot, but we're practically both the writers on the things. "
Comicsdad		#96	[-]
Posts: 3814 Aug 2 08 5:22 AM Bronze Age Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Wow, is it that bad?!? ============= Comicsdad
deejayway		#97	[-]
Posts: 2891 Aug 2 08 9:48 AM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	I just gotta my copy and even though I'm no where near as demanding as some, I've gotta say that this is the biggest disappointment in a looong time. I can't actually remember off hand when I was this let down by the production values of an up-scale hardcover reprint. The art seems bland and listless, especially if you compare it to the great job First did on large-formal graphic novel reprints they produced back in the day. This just does not compage. Such a pity because if anything deserves a definitive reprint, it's American Flagg.
M Kronenberg		#98	[-]
Posts: 478 Aug 2 08 10:29 AM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	I've been very curious to see the results of this book for a couple of reasons. FIRST: I was a big fan of AMERICAN FLAGG. It came out at a perfect time for me, just when I entered college. I was ready for a more mature and intelligent read. I was always a fan of Chaykin's art and I believe this is Howard at his best. As an EC fan, I really like it when an artist uses Zipatone and/or Craftint to enhance their art. Many of the EC artists did this, as did Adams, Steranko, Gulacy, and my favorite inker in the world Terry Austin. Chaykin really took full advantage of this technique in AMERICAN FLAGG, and he made it work very well. It's an integral part of the series' look. SECOND: Since this is an Image book, I was curious to see the book's production values. Image publisher Erik Larsen was very vocal in his criticism of the EC ARCHIVES. He bashed the coloring, design, and the paper we printed on. It's interesting and distressing to read some of the comments here about this book. From the scan presented by AussieStu, the coloring seems off. People are bothered by the binding, that cuts into the art. The sizes of the covers are reduced (if this is to fit in the cover credits, then this can be avoided by putting the credits in the TOC like the EC ARCHIVES). The dust jacket seems annoying. To me, the most distressing of all is that Chaykin's art has been compromised. AussieStu's scan shows that too much of Chaykin's Craftint work has dropped out. I can't comment on the books overall design until I can flip through a copy (I'm going to my LCS today, so maybe I'll see it). I will say that I'm a fan of most of Chip Kidd's work. With these criticisms, regarding two of the basics in book production--binding and integrity of the art, I'm surprised even more by Larsen's problems with the EC ARCHIVES, especially considering how long it took for this book to come out. Michael Kronenberg Designer: Marvel Comics, Film Noir Foundation, TwoMorrows Publishing Author/Designer: The Batcave Companion, Spies: Vixens, and Masters of Kung Fu: The Art of Paul Gulacy
PatrickJoseph		#99	[-]
Posts: 1159 Aug 2 08 10:40 AM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Seeing that side by side comparison is disappointing. The duotone Chaykin used was really where a lot of the artistry was in the series. I just reread the first 16 issues, and was amazed at how so many figures were just simple outlines with some spotted blacks, then pushed into 3 dimensions by the use of the duotone process. He was basically paining with the toner developer on the page, and it was gorgeous. Also, a lot of background objects (tables, counters, walls) were created with a splash of duotone and spotted blacks, with no linear boundary on the object. A lot of that will be lost if the drop out is as consistently poor as it is in the example shown. They may be water damaged and musty, but I may hold onto my originals and skip this reprint.
sloMoYOyo		#100	[-]
Posts: 1855 Aug 2 08 11:36 AM Registered Member Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Is that a typical example Stu? The duotone is one thing and I was prepared for some dropout there but the thing that bugs me about that scan is the loss of linework in the hair. The rest of the linework seems good enugh but it's like they forgot to pay attention to the hair. Am I going to see a lot of that when I buy this book?

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